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Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Monday March 4th, 2013 6:03pm
by torilen
I've just been looking at the artifacts from the elf quest. Some of them say that only the elf can use them.
Some others, however, do not specifically say that only the elf can use them, but the description mentions
only the elf, instead of "the user" or "the hero" or some other generic descriptor to denote who can use
that artifact.

So...how would you all rule on this? My personal opinion would be that, unless it specifically states that only
the elf can use them, anyone can...that they used the elf in the description because the artifacts are from
the elf quest pack.

Re: Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Tuesday March 5th, 2013 2:11am
by Sjeng
That's what I do. just as you described.

Re: Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Thursday March 7th, 2013 10:13pm
by Daedalus
The problem is only with two artifact cards which aren't clear as to user restrictions, the Ancient Staff and Elven Boots. The other cards either clearly exclude use for all Heroes but the Elf, such as the Elven Bracers, or clearly include use for all Heroes, such as the Bone Wand. My first impression was to allow the Ancient Staff and Elven Boots for the Elf only as the wording was specifically inclusive for the Elf. However, that impression was obviously weakened due to the contradictory nature of the wording between the EQP artifact cards as a whole, as you already stated.

So I took a look at the BQP. No ambiguous wording there. The Amulet of the North is the only exclusionary artifact, and the wording is clear it may only be worn by the Barbarian. From the EQP, the Elven Bracers are also clearly exclusionary and anagolous to this. The Bow of Vindication of the EQP also contains exclusionary wording, so I'd say this sets a strong precedent when considering the Ancient Staff and Elven Boots. It appears to me that the EQP was written with poor wording and published first. The BQP is a kind of revision in regards to artifacts that avoids the ambiguous wording of the Ancient Staff and Elven Boots.

I also expanded the reference base by checking out the NA Main Game System artifacts. While several of them contain exclusionary wording for and against the Wizard, two artifacts, the Spell Ring and Wand of Magic, are more relevant because they list just the Elf and Wizard as using them. This is similar to the Ancient Staff and Elven Boots which list just the Elf as using them. There is an important difference, however, as the Spell Ring and Wand of Magic are used to cast magic, which the Barbarian and Dwarf are incapable of doing. Use of these artifacts are not defined by the inclusion of the Elf and the Wizard names, but rather the ability to cast spells--a restriction. This again supports exclusionary wording as a precedent for interpreting who can and can't use an artifact.

Taking these other sources in comparison, I'd say I side with both you and Sjeng. Exclusionary wording is the thing to pay attention to. Calling out the Elf name is secondary and probably a result of poor editing.

Re: Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Friday August 1st, 2014 5:36pm
by tomye
Do you also think the elven chain mail works like borins armor but can only be worn by the elf?

Re: Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Tuesday September 9th, 2014 6:57pm
by Daedalus
"...magical Elven Chain Mail armor. This armor gives the Elf 2 extra defend dice. I may be combined with a helmet and shield."

I'd gonna stick with what I posted above and say anyone can wear it, as there isn't exclusionary wording. Rather, Elf was mentioned in context of the storyline. You can consider it equal to Borin's Armor, or better if you rule Borin's Armor can't be combined with a helmet due to the picture.

Re: Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Tuesday September 9th, 2014 7:04pm
by chaoticprime
torilen wrote:I've just been looking at the artifacts from the elf quest. Some of them say that only the elf can use them.
Some others, however, do not specifically say that only the elf can use them, but the description mentions
only the elf, instead of "the user" or "the hero" or some other generic descriptor to denote who can use
that artifact.

So...how would you all rule on this? My personal opinion would be that, unless it specifically states that only
the elf can use them, anyone can...that they used the elf in the description because the artifacts are from
the elf quest pack.


I am pretty sure they worded it the way they did on purpose; yes.

Re: Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Tuesday September 9th, 2014 8:50pm
by Redav
torilen wrote:So...how would you all rule on this?

I'd rule it as written. I had a quick read of the EQP cards and I think they're pretty clear. They mention that it's either Elf only or for anyone.

Daedalus wrote:"...magical Elven Chain Mail armor. This armor gives the Elf 2 extra defend dice. I may be combined with a helmet and shield."

Where is this chain mail armour from? I can't find it (I'm not very familiar with the EQP, BQP, WoM). If what is quoted is what the card says, then that artifact is an Elf only item - it says that it gives the Elf more defence dice, no one else

Re: Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Tuesday September 9th, 2014 9:22pm
by drathe
The chain mail is in the quest notes. But there is no card. It is believed to have been replaced by (or be the replacement of) the Elven Bracers card as there are no Elven Bracers in the notes.

Re: Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Tuesday September 9th, 2014 9:40pm
by Redav
Ahh... Poor editing? Who'd have thought :lol:

Re: Who Can Use Elf Artifacts

PostPosted: Wednesday September 10th, 2014 4:04am
by Goblin-King
If they could have just used the conventions from the game system with putting restrictions specifically in the bottom of the card...

Elven Bow is very specific in it's wording. We notice there are yet still no "classic restrictions" text in the bottom. This proves the system from the original game has been disregarded.
Going from there we can only assume the wordings mean exactly what they mean. The Ancient Staff grants the ELF the ability to...

Conclusion: Staff, boots, bracers and bow is "Can only be used by the Elf".

This is the elf by the end of MotM:
Image