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Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Wizards of Morcar Quest Pack.

Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday September 5th, 2023 4:52pm

Avalon Hill's Chris Nadeau all but admitted that this rumored pack (a remake of the 1991 EU expansion) will be coming out at some point and their goal will not just be to use the NA rules but also to expand the original 5 quest version to 10 quests. I wonder what those 10 quests would be? Similar to the other thread about 2024's remake of Against the Ogre Horde...

:idea: [ For those unfamiliar with this European expansion to HeroQuest, you can check out YeOldeInn's page. Keep in mind, some things may be homebrew that have been made later by fans such as "Wizards of Zargon" an attempt to map it to NA rules by Phoenix and some others many years ago now, which may be of interest to the AH team adapting this of course! Phoenix made some typos in his quest that are documented here (may not be complete). Keep in mind editorial changes were made on these later pages as well]

Several suggestions come to mind and I'm sure there are others out there I'm missing but please share them here. Things I would expect:

:redorb: The usual word replacement to keep it in line with the rest of the Remake stuff. Will "Morcar" be re-named "Zargon" or will he be introduced as a new character? Perhaps this is the name that Zargon is using? A plot twist that he's some new character and really it was Zargon all along? Or maybe a different evil wizard is hiring Festral to stir up the Ogres against the "Realm" and "the King" this time?

:redorb: 24 mercenary figures, if they don't re-introduce the bolt on weapons concept. The Mercs are cheaper but also less durable than the Frozen Horror Mercs. Would they simply be substituted in values or could some other tweaking be done here? None of them are used as badguys but there is a potion that lets you charm them to get a discount and they give a generous discount for surviving from one quest to another encouraging you not to "waste" them as cannon fodder. These might look the same as the FH mercs or they might be a whole new design.

:redorb: Tweaked Spells. the Basic spells are just too weak if the Elf/Wizard are still dividing them up in sets of 3, vs. the Elementals. One suggestion is that the "cloud" spell could use a bunch of tiles and not just a single one, to spread the effect out. These spells could be tweaked in light of similar spells in other expansions and packs too.

:redorb: Fix Unmarked Treasure Chests. Quest 5: 2 chests, central room (as in another thread, wallydubbs pointed this out in this pack and ATOH as well).

:redorb: New plastics. I would expect to have the Entrance/Exit doors added. But what else? The magical walls in plastic instead of those big cardboards or maybe inserts yet again. There are no big new monsters this time, just the Mercenaries and the four evil Wizards. new "Wizard" furniture perhaps? Maybe an Alchemy system similar to Rise of the Dread Moon again, but perhaps with some different cards (you could combine the decks to make a giant one).

:redorb: Perhaps a tweak to the magical traps. It seems these were geared towards the game mechanic that once you opened a door you had to enter the room and perhaps could not back out of it, if you happened to see a magical trap (but had to keep walking to the other side in hopes of escape or use pass through rock or else a tempest spell to disable to the trap). Under the NA rules they seem a little too easy to avoid completely.

:redorb: I would expect to see an Alchemist Shop and some basic artifacts (even if they were just repeated from KK and/or ROTWL).

:redorb: With emphasis on Magic, perhaps the Wizard's Staff, Wizard's Cloak, Wand of Magic and Spell Ring should be findable again (if they are not already in the possession of the heroes) in the quest notes?

:redorb: Rules updated to explain "Pits of Darkness" and include some of those tiles in the set. These were put into WOM originally I think either by accident (and were meant to just be regular pit traps) or else they intended to include this mechanic from ATOH but forgot to document it it in the book.

:redorb: Evil Sorcerer spells. Some say that because some of these spells that the bad guys have use the same name, but different mechanics to the "Dread" Spells in the Game System. I don't see the issue here. These bad guys have unique spells. Even if you tweak the name slightly, some of them are weaker than their GS equivalents ("Summon Mummy" and "Call Skeleton" from the necromancer aren't as powerful generally as Summon undead, then again you could say he has BOTH and so gets two opportunities to summon undead characters even if they don't all appear at once), while others are stronger (the High Archmage's Rust Spell destroys any one piece of equipment, not just a "metal" helmet or shield!). The artwork for the Lightning bolt spell depicts the Archmage when it should show the Stormmaster, however. Lightning bolt now uses a tile and some have questioned how that can be used diagonally but it could using the straight diagonal squares rather than an "off-axis" angle and this is how I think the GS version is intended to be played as well, probably. I think overall perhaps some slight tweaks here or there to the Wizards themselves and/or their spells could be good. Perhaps when defeated they drop magical artifacts?

:redorb: Needs a better Epilogue. The quest kind of ends abruptly after you beat the last of the revived sorcerers. Yes, there was a cool prologue that assumed the completion of KK/ROTWL and ATOH (but you still don't need to play that one first).

:redorb: Perhaps following in the footsteps of the ATOH remake with the "play the quests as a series" you could make it so that they are not able to shop between quests. Then again it seems you are actually traveling each quest to the hideouts of one of these evil mages and so in theory you would think it would be much more plausible that you could "shop" rather than thinking you were underground the whole time behind enemy lines as in ATOH, so maybe not.

:redorb: Here might be another opportunity to include "fancy dice" assuming they haven't put fancy dice (like those seen at GenCon 2023) into other expansions before this one. Perhaps a bonus could be another red plastic hero of some kind if there was room to spare. But between the human mercs and the potential Ogre mercs, I think they could probably do well enough to fill up the pack and make it attractive to buyers on the shelf.

:redorb: Maybe some monster cards for the four evil Wizard characters.

:redorb: They probably don't actually need 23 Mercenary cards as in the original. The instructions even said they were only included if you lose some and were not used in gameplay. You'd only "Need" one for each Merc type, unless they introduce some game mechanic to use the cards. There was probably something about not wasting paper in the factory, to round out the number of cards in the pack as many have guessed.

:redorb: More Skull tiles!
Last edited by Kurgan on Thursday September 7th, 2023 3:09pm, edited 6 times in total.


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Re: Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby dreicunan » Tuesday September 5th, 2023 7:56pm

Given that the Warlock can also use wizard items, I don't know that I'd only include the wizard artifacts (or at least the staff and cloak) as findable if the party doesn't have them unless they were going to include the Warlock in this expansion and include some warlock artifacts to find.
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Re: Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday September 6th, 2023 11:45am

They won't be assuming that you are bringing other new heroes with them though. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Warlock hero return at some point in some form or fashion but for now they are going to build these quests with the idea that you have the "classic" party of Barbarian, Dwarf, Elf & Wizard.

If you are playing with the Warlock (who didn't exist in the 90's) instead of the Wizard, nothing changes. I don't see the problem here. If you are playing with a party that includes neither hero, that seems like a very rare situation (the designers don't need to accommodate every possible custom scenario in the book/box).

Within the Mythic box there were quest books (all of which other than COPD will be re-released in retail, and soon!) that would give you classic GS artifacts a second time (or else say "if you don't already have it..."). This would include the Wizard Artifacts. It would be a good addition that wouldn't break things too much from the original version and these are harder quests generally than the GS so you'd want the Heroes probably to be fully equipped, if not at the start, then fairly quickly after that.


:redorb: Skull Tiles... it will probably need to include more Skull Tiles (probably 12-16) to account for the new high BP monsters being added (the Wizards) similar to how FH/MOTM did.


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Re: Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby SirRick » Wednesday September 6th, 2023 7:25pm

Some of what I say will be repeated from earlier posts, but I do so because I also support the ideas.

New Spells: The hero spells do need to be tweaked so they might be worth taking. The wizard villains’ spells probably need a little tweaking too. Maybe a revised Rust spell that targets metal weapons and helmets instead of swords and helmets.

New Equipment: This is something I mentioned in another topic. I would like to see new equipment cards, as in non-consumable stuff. The heroes need something new to buy and find other than longswords, crossbows, and battle axes. Nothing crazy, more like stuff to fill in some blanks in the armory based on what other characters and monsters use. Stuff like a short bow, spear, halberd, elven longbow, and greatsword for example. For armor, maybe leather armor (no added defend dice but maybe a reroll, sort of a step between no body armor and Bracers), maybe a tower shield?

New Artifacts: Everyone loves new artifacts, and the new ones featured in RotDM were great. Both Against the Ogre Horde and Wizards of Morcar didn’t offer anything new, and could really use this.


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Re: Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Thursday September 7th, 2023 2:12pm

Right now the WOM Rust Spell (which was always different from the NA Game System Rust Spell) targets ALL equipment (even a wooden staff could be destroyed by magical "rust"). It reminds me of the Companion App treating "twist wood" as basically a nerf to ANY monster weapon, regardless of constitution (it works on even the "ice axe" used by the Frozen Horror himself). That's pretty powerful. Making it only work on "metal" is a nerf, but there would be some interpretation there, because nearly everything (except a staff or cloak) contain metallic components, which if destroyed, would surely damage the ability of that piece of equipment if not outright destroy it.

We also have to keep in mind that Spells can be "rebounded" now off of a character using evil magic or the Ancient Staff artifact, so we have to consider the effects it has on both heroes AND monsters in each case, regardless of who is the one casting it initially.
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Re: Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby SirRick » Thursday September 7th, 2023 2:17pm

Kurgan wrote:Right now the Rust Spell targets ALL equipment (even a wooden staff could be destroyed by magical "rust"). It reminds me of the Companion App treating "twist wood" as basically a nerf to ANY monster weapon, regardless of constitution (it works on even the "ice axe" used by the Frozen Horror himself). That's pretty powerful. Making it only work on "metal" is a nerf, but there would be some interpretation there, because nearly everything (except a staff or cloak) contain metallic components, which if destroyed, would surely damage the ability of that piece of equipment if not outright destroy it.

We also have to keep in mind that Spells can be "rebounded" now off of a character using evil magic or the Ancient Staff artifact, so we have to consider the effects it has on both heroes AND monsters in each case, regardless of who is the one casting it initially.


Are you saying the App allows the Rust spell to target anything? I’m just going by what it says on the card. If Rust is treated differently on the App, they should probably have an updated card, like how they included an updated Helmet and Hand Axe card.


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Re: Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Thursday September 7th, 2023 2:20pm

It says Equipment. Nothing about metal (and doesn't mention Artifacts which are called Quest Treasures in the EU system). *

Keep in mind the familiar "Rust" spell in the Game System didn't exist in the EU editions of 1989/1990 (not even Advanced Quest edition of 1992), only in the North American based releases (hence why it's in the Remake edition). I have no problem with there being two versions of the spell, personally. Chaos Spell cards in general didn't exist in the EU until WOM (the earlier ATOH used Chaos Spell tokens instead).


* Now if they just print it as-is, this presents an interesting little issue in the Remake edition as Potions are now included as "Equipment" cards. So this means Rust could be used to destroy a Potion (or even the newly expensive "Holy Water") unless they clarify that it only applies to things other than potions. Toolkit would also be able to be destroyed as would Plate Armor. Artifacts would not be effected because they are not the same as "equipment" (same with Treasure deck items or Alchemist deck items).

In the EU edition the Cloak of Protection is Equipment (rather than the Artifact that replaced it in the NA edition, the Wizard's Cloak). This could also be destroyed by "Rust" if taken as-is. It's magic!

I'm putting in the NA Game System rust spell card just for comparison. "Metal armor" was never a game mechanic in the original editions, this all started with the Remake's use of the new alternate heroes (tied to the new interpretation of Bracers as made of leather rather than metal, recall Bracers didn't exist in the NA edition... Elven Bracers were something else not armor). Hence the NA edition didn't care what was made of metal and what wasn't, because there was only one type of Helmet and three types of Swords (Artifacts were exempted) that the new Chaos Spell could affect. It didn't destroy other things that were made of metal.

You can also look at the artwork, which, while not always reliable, does show a variety of items in the WOM version.

(Top Image: North American game system)
(Bottom Image: Wizards of Morcar, EU)
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Re: Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby SirRick » Thursday September 7th, 2023 2:30pm

Kurgan wrote:It says Equipment. Nothing about metal (and doesn't mention Artifacts which are called Quest Treasures in the EU system).


I’m talking about updating the Rust spell from the GS that specifically says metal swords and helmets. I forgot there was a High Wizard spell also called Rust that is more powerful.


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Re: Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Thursday September 7th, 2023 2:38pm

Yeah, you could make a brand new spell for this expansion(for the High Mage evil sorcerer) remake that says "destroys any piece of metal equipment" "cannot be used against Artifacts" and then just leave it to the players to see if the word "metal" appears on a card, and if so, it can be destroyed by the Spell.

Maybe that's the easiest? The original being able to destroy ANY equipment made it much more powerful so this would be a nerf because it would only affect a subset of equipment...


Nixing the unique WOM spells and giving them Game System Dread Spells instead seems like a much more boring way to port this expansion and lessens the content in the box. Zargon can already mod the quest if he wishes to just toss away the spells his monsters are given in favor of different ones... these were to give each boss a different flavor beyond your typical Chaos Sorcerer (of which some do appear in WOM as well).

I think that makes more sense than issuing a duplicate, but re-worded GS spell. These cards have the picture of the specific Wizard of Morcar on the back, rather than the general "Dread/Chaos" image. It's a totally different deck. And these cards get re-used because you fight these guys multiple times.


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Re: Wizards of Morcar 2024 Remake Ideas/Suggestions

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » Friday September 8th, 2023 4:53am

Kurgan wrote:If you are playing with the Warlock (who didn't exist in the 90's) instead of the Wizard, nothing changes. I don't see the problem here. If you are playing with a party that includes neither hero, that seems like a very rare situation (the designers don't need to accommodate every possible custom scenario in the book/box).


If you provide 8 hero types for 4 players to choose from in the game (and no restrictions aside from not having 2 of the same) then you DO need to ensure that your game supports that choice.

And having two different spells (or items, artefacts, potions and so on) with the same name is an unnecessary cause of confusion. As I have said before "creating your own quests" has been an encouraged feature of HeroQuest right from the start, having to specify at the start of every quest you make(both your own and future official expansions), exactly which versions of "shortsword", "healing potion", "goblin", "rust" spell that you have and have not designed and play tested the quest against seems like an unnecessary barrier.
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