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Invisibility poll

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Wizards of Morcar Quest Pack.

Wizard casts Invisibility on Barbarian. May the Orc move and attack Dwarf? (check photo below)

- Barbarian's figure is removed from the board, the Orc may move and attack Dwarf.
0
No votes
- The invisible Barbarian still blocks the way, the Orc may not move outside the room.
22
88%
- None of the above.
3
12%
 
Total votes : 25

Re: Invisibility poll

Postby torilen » Monday February 9th, 2015 7:02pm

I have to disagree with Bene - I don't think any of the other players, heroes included, would know
where the invisible hero is. It would be a little impractical, yes...but it would be possible. The length
of the spell is not horribly long, and as HQ is a simplified game...simply give the invisible hero a
paper map of the board or tiles being used and let him keep track with a pencil of his moves
turn by turn. This would keep him honest.

Or, if all the players trust the player enough, simply let him keep track in his mind.

Doing this would certainly add excitement and thrill to the players. Imagine the surprise of the
Evil Wizard player when the barbarian winds up behind the boss character, hacking him in the
back from behind with his sword.

This would also add thrill to Evil Wizard player - if your group is using an expanded spell list and
it includes spells that effect an area - filling four spaces with fire, for example. And the barbarian
just happens to be in one of those spaces because the heroes can't see him. HAHAHAHA! What a grand
time that would be.


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Re: Invisibility poll

Postby Goblin-King » Tuesday February 10th, 2015 4:49am

But now you are venturing far into the land of houserules - which is fine ;)
But the actual rules are very clear and simple. An invisible hero can't be targeted by attacks or spells and can't attack himself.
As a rules-question there's not really much to discuss.

To answer my own questions regarding LoS, nothing would change according to RaW.

This is not D&D where spells can be used for all kind of creative shenanigans...


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Re: Invisibility poll

Postby Big Bene » Tuesday February 10th, 2015 4:55am

No disagreement here. I think it can be very well done the way you describe, and would be great fun.

I just don't think it is what the spell description on the card implies. And I stated this only as an answer to the question if the orc can go "through" the barbarian.
Point 1 on Sotiris' list: "Barbarian's figure is removed from the board, the Orc may move and attack Dwarf". So he reasons, because the barbarian is removed from the board, he doesn't occupy a square, and the orc can "use" the square the invisible barbarian theorethically stands on.

There are two ways to take on this problem:
You can think about how the spell would really work in the game-world, i. e. how an ivisible character would really affect the movement of the orc - is he incorporeal or just invisible, can he intentionally step aside to prevent beeing detected, is there enough room on the square...
Or you can think in terms of rules - what is the intended meaning of the spell description, is the figure removed from the board, does the square count as unoccupied for movement rules, do the players know the whereabouts of an invisible character?

When I got Sotiris right, he thinks in terms of rules here. The figure is removed, so the square is unoccupied, so as by the movement rules, the orc can enter it. In terms of game-world logic, the square is of course occupied by the barbarian, invisible or not, and represented by a figure on the gameboard or not. We are talking rules, here.
In this form, the answer is that by the rules as written the figure is not removed, so there is no reason to interprete the square as "unoccupied", and the orc can't go there.

Of course, you can think of ways to remove the figure and still keep track of the charakter's movements. But then you are making house rules (which is a good thing),and it's up to you to prevent inconsistances with the in-game logic, i. e. you have to define if the character which is not represented on the board by a figure still occupies a square or not. Normally, as the spell is called "Invisibility" and not "Aetheral form" or the like, you would rule it is indeed occupied. Either way, by your house-rule, you would also answer Sotiris' original question.
Have a look ;)


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Re: Invisibility poll

Postby Sotiris » Tuesday February 10th, 2015 5:46am

Obviously, option B is closest to the core rules.
This spell has a powerful effect when used in corridors, doors etc where monsters have no access to the rest of heroes.
An unexperienced player can't understand it when reads the card unless she/he casts it and see the effect in action.
I would let though range attacks/spells to hit the next visible hero.

On the other hand, i brought option A on the table because i have tried it in my home quests/rules.
The invisible hero's figure is replaced by a tile (everyone sees where she/he moves) and when the spell ends, the figure returns on the board.
If the square is occupied (even by a hero) the figure appears on the closest free square. IF, for example, the closest free spot is 4 squares away
and her/his movement roll shows lower than 4, the hero loses 1 B.P. for each occupied square.


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Re: Invisibility poll

Postby knightkrawler » Tuesday February 10th, 2015 11:46am

There is really really no debate from the wording of the rulebook and the card text, which overrules the rulebook if there's a contradiction. It's how the cards work.
From the wording, option B is the only way to go in a poll there. Everything else is houseruling and perfectly OK if all players in the group agree or misunderstand the card text in the same way.
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Re: Invisibility poll

Postby whitebeard » Tuesday February 10th, 2015 2:53pm

Which quest pack is this card from? It is terrible!


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Re: Invisibility poll

Postby knightkrawler » Tuesday February 10th, 2015 2:59pm

Wizards of Morcar. It is.
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Re: Invisibility poll

Postby torilen » Tuesday February 10th, 2015 3:44pm

whitebeard wrote:Which quest pack is this card from? It is terrible!


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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Re: Invisibility poll

Postby cynthialee » Tuesday February 10th, 2015 4:51pm

After some thought on this topic:

In the situation cited:
With everyone crowded around the Barbarian and the Ork in the doorway...and it being the orks turn...his only logical action is to get away from the doorway when he sees the party.
The ork is not stupid, he is going to see the empty space in front of the door and it is no great leap of intellect for a resident of Golrantha to think someone is invisible in that spot. The other heroes could not have opened the door unless the Wizard used the genie and no wizard I have ever known does such a thing. So does he try and advance knowing he can not occupy the square? Or assuming that he does not think there is an invisible person there would he even be stupid enough to try and take the 'empty' barbarians square, just so he can place himself surrounded by heroes?
No. The ork must fall back to his allies and hope that he gets the heroes in a more favorable combat situation. Standing just outside the door and surrounded by heroes is dumb. Staying in the doorway is dumb...He must act logically and perhaps with some tactical forethought.
Thus: The Ork falls back to a better position.
Issue solved.
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Re: Invisibility poll

Postby Goblin-King » Tuesday February 10th, 2015 4:56pm

cynthialee wrote:The other heroes could not have opened the door unless the Wizard used the genie and no wizard I have ever known does such a thing.

In my 25 years of questing I have never seen the wizard use the Genie to open a door; not even once!


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