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A final quest question.

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Wizards of Morcar Quest Pack.

There's no ignoring the Wizards if they're dead. They were b

Postby Sotiris » Tuesday November 12th, 2013 1:54pm

..imagine a hero's reaction when he draws wondering monster after all this epic battle and a wizard comes back for 2nd time!! :o
Indeed, there's no ignoring the wizards if they're dead but i can't ignore what the text says too "He has now brought them together in his citadel of darkness. However the effort has cost him much. You must take advantage of this moment of weakness and vanquish his evil lieutenants".
So i prefer to let them search free of wm because morcar is tired, there's no treasure/reward on this last quest and finally 2 negative surprises at a single quest are too much..but i like your way of thinking! :twisted:


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Re: A final quest question.

Postby Fullork345 » Tuesday November 12th, 2013 7:24pm

Haha that's hilarious for the quest to have a resurrected boss from searching for treasure.
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Re: A final quest question.

Postby chaoticprime » Tuesday November 12th, 2013 7:37pm

The Quest Pack is called "Wizards of Morcar," and when I run that sucker, I want my money's worth out of the freakin' "Wizards." You get a total of eight wizards without the wandering monster loop. That's just not enough Wizards.


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Re: A final quest question.

Postby Daedalus » Monday November 25th, 2013 3:10pm

Fullork345 wrote:When the bosses appear as the wandering monster can they cast a spell instead of attacking?

I say no, but Raise dead is the exception. I'll try to use game text to explain my interpretation, as I usually like to play that way. But it's worth mentioning that this looks like a case where it's also appropriate for the Evil Wizard player to do whatever is judged best.

Chaotic Prime has already pointed out the main restrictions from the NA rules that apply:

chaoticprime wrote:NA-wise. They can only make an attack. Its a rules-as-written thing that simply cannot be helped. Casting a spell as a wandering monster would entitle them to more than one spell per turn, anyway.

sajungzak has also refered to the first of the restrictions (attack only) which is found on p. 16 of the NA Instruction Booklet under Wandering Monsters:
    As Zargon, you must place the monster
    next to the treasure-searcher and
    immediately roll Attack Dice....
The second restriction refered to in Chaotic Prime's quote is found on p.5 of WoM under The Forces of Morcar in the New Magic section:
    ...Each of these
    new opponents is a Sorcerer and has his own set of sorcerous spells which he may use
    in the same way as the Wizard and the Elf....
    Each Sorcerer may only cast one spell in a turn, instead of attacking.
As a WoM Sorcerer uses spells in the same way as a Wizard and Elf, then a Sorcerer must cast spells on the Evil Wizard's corresponding turn. That implies spells can't be cast on a treasure-searching Hero's turn when the Sorcerer-as-Wandering-Monster appears and immediately attacks. There is an exception:

Raise the Dead

Cast this spell on another player's
turn after a Monster has been
killed. The Monster is then
replaced with a Skeleton, which
can move and attack immediately.

This spell specifically states it may be cast on another player's turn, so it may be cast immediately on the treasure-searching Hero's turn using the EU rules.

Fullork345 wrote:Well is it one per round or one per turn? If it's one per round, the necromancers raise dead spell is useless because using it prevents him from casting another spell during zargon's turn because he used it for that round.

I'd allow Raise the Dead to be cast on a monster that was killed earlier on another player's turn, before the treasure search, as the wording "after a Monster has been killed" refers to more time than just the player's turn it is cast in. (Otherwise the wording would be "after a Monster is killed.")

After reviewing the EU rules, I'd allow the Necromancer to also cast another spell after Raise the Dead, during Morcar's turn. Doing so doesn't break the prohibition of casting only one spell in a turn--only one spell is cast on the treasure-searcher's turn, and only one spell is cast on Morcar's turn. There is no rule against casting more than one spell in a round of turns. In fact, the Elf spell Flashback also allows for casting two spells in a single turn or casting two spells on seperate turns but in a single round, without resorting to using an artifact. Both Raise the Dead and Flashback include rules exceptions that overide the basic one-spell-per-turn restriction.

This is not to say that I think the EU rules allow a spell other than Raise the Dead to be cast in a treasure-searcher's turn. As I stated earlier, doing so wouldn't correctly correspond to using spells "in the same way as the Wizard and the Elf." Paraphrasing from Casting a Spell on p.11 of the EU rules, it states that a spell must be cast on the Wizard or Elf character's turn. Except for Raise the Dead, this requires other WoM sorcerer spells to be cast on the Sorcerer's turn.
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Re: A final quest question.

Postby sajungzak » Monday November 25th, 2013 3:36pm

Good points Daedalus.
However, it is written that a sorcerer can cast a spell instead of attacking. To say that would count as 2 spells in one turn (or round, whatever) is like saying a normal wandering monster can't attack again on Zargon's turn because he already attacked. Which he can.
If certain spells can override basic rules, then this rule is also an exception. My :2cents:

At this point, I would like to second Daedalus on this -
Daedalus wrote: it's worth mentioning that this looks like a case where it's also appropriate for the Evil Wizard player to do whatever is judged best.


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Re: A final quest question.

Postby Daedalus » Monday November 25th, 2013 3:59pm

Your :2cents: is valid. So many rules are at play here that deciding on the direct rule you mention is a fine way to handle things. The main thing is a ruling makes sense and relates to the game. My wall of words doesn't make me right, but it does let me exercise my thoughts on the EU rules and expansions which I am still learning. My aim is to glean what I can and then offer it for others to consider. I'm definitely a rules lawyer, and the OP had some principles I feel are worth considering.
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Re: A final quest question.

Postby knightkrawler » Monday November 25th, 2013 4:59pm

Card text overpowers rulebook text, so I'm with Daedalus' long post.
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Re: A final quest question.

Postby The Road Warrior » Monday November 25th, 2013 5:20pm

An alternative view...

chaoticprime wrote:NA-wise. They can only make an attack. Its a rules-as-written thing that simply cannot be helped. Casting a spell as a wandering monster would entitle them to more than one spell per turn, anyway.

Daedalus wrote:Each Sorcerer may only cast one spell in a turn, instead of attacking.


"Zargon, only after ALL 4 Heroes have completed a turn is it your turn"

A wandering wizard would be casting a spell on the Heroes turn and then another spell during the Evil Wizard's turn, not 2 spells during the same turn.

Of course at the end of the NA book it does say "You may only cast a spell on your turn" but this is in a section titled "Action 2 - Cast a Chaos Spell" and these are not Chaos Spells.

Daedalus wrote:...Each of these
new opponents is a Sorcerer and has his own set of sorcerous spells which he may use
in the same way as the Wizard and the Elf....

& the Wandering Monster says.
The monster attacks immediately
and the rule book says
As the Elf or Wizard, you may cast a spell instead of attacking

This could be used to suggest that the wandering wizard could cast a spell instead of attacking. Edit: In fact sajungzak already did this



You could go round in circles with this forever. The fact is that when the Wandering Monster card was designed it was not intended to be used with wandering monsters that cast spells. In the original EU version no monsters could cast spells!! (except the Fire Mage)

it's worth mentioning that this looks like a case where it's also appropriate for the Evil Wizard player to do whatever is judged best.
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Re: A final quest question.

Postby Fullork345 » Tuesday November 26th, 2013 9:33pm

Thank you guys, I just wanted an idea how you guys handled it.
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