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Mind Blast Question

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Mind Blast Question

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Thursday October 14th, 2021 12:14am

I'm unclear on Mind Blast.

"roll combat dice equal to Mind Point score"
"inflicts Mind Point damage" in excess skulls rolled over the opponent

Do the amount of dice you roll get reduced as you lose mind points due to the mind point damage? Does that reduce the Mind Point Score, making it unlikely to roll in excess as you lose more Mind Points?
Or, does the Mind Point Score stay the same. You just start with the the amount of mind points hit points equal to your initial Mind Point Score?

Also, the quest 3 sorcerer only has 1 body point. That must be an error.
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Re: Mind Blast Question

Postby Kurgan » Thursday October 14th, 2021 8:23am

I take it as referring to your Mind Points at the time, not your starting maximum. Chaos Sorcerer's tend to have multiples of these abilities, but not unlimited.

My gaming group hasn't progressed to that level yet, but I imagine it would really only allow the Sorcerer to eliminate one or two heroes, unless he is really lucky. Mind Blast can harm hin as well, if he's unlucky.


As for having 1 BP, yes, these expansions introduced multiple body point monsters to the EU, but tended only to apply to the Ogres. Phoenix's conversions were intended to merge them with the NA standards.


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Re: Mind Blast Question

Postby lestodante » Thursday October 14th, 2021 1:41pm

Jalapenotrellis wrote:"roll combat dice equal to Mind Point score"
"inflicts Mind Point damage" in excess skulls rolled over the opponent


example 1:
Evil Sorcerer attacks the Barbarian with Mind Blast;
Barbarian rolls 2 dice because he has 2 Mind Points and rolls :skull: :skull: ;
Evil sorcerer rolls 5 dice because he has 5 Mind Points and rolls :skull: :skull: :skull: :whiteshield: :whiteshield: ;
now consider only the skulls and ignore any shield rolled by the two figures;
the Evil Sorcerer wins, because he obtained more skulls.
Barbarian lose 1 Mind Point (3 skulls - 2 skulls = 1)

example 2
:
Evil Sorcerer attacks the Wizard with Mind Blast;
Wizard rolls 6 dice because he has 6 Mind Points and rolls :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :whiteshield: :blackshield: ;
Evil sorcerer rolls 5 dice because he has 5 Mind Points and rolls :skull: :skull: :whiteshield: :whiteshield: :blackshield: ;
now consider only the skulls and ignore any shield rolled by the two figures;
the Evil Sorcerer lost, because he obtained less skulls than the Wizard.
Evil Sorcerer loses 2 Mind Point (4 skulls - 2 skulls = 2)


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Re: Mind Blast Question

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Thursday October 14th, 2021 1:47pm

lestodante wrote:
Jalapenotrellis wrote:"roll combat dice equal to Mind Point score"
"inflicts Mind Point damage" in excess skulls rolled over the opponent


example 1:
Evil Sorcerer attacks the Barbarian with Mind Blast;
Barbarian rolls 2 dice because he has 2 Mind Points and rolls :skull: :skull: ;
Evil sorcerer rolls 5 dice because he has 5 Mind Points and rolls :skull: :skull: :skull: :whiteshield: :whiteshield: ;
now consider only the skulls and ignore any shield rolled by the two figures;
the Evil Sorcerer wins, because he obtained more skulls.
Barbarian lose 1 Mind Point (3 skulls - 2 skulls = 1)

example 2
:
Evil Sorcerer attacks the Wizard with Mind Blast;
Wizard rolls 6 dice because he has 6 Mind Points and rolls :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :whiteshield: :blackshield: ;
Evil sorcerer rolls 5 dice because he has 5 Mind Points and rolls :skull: :skull: :whiteshield: :whiteshield: :blackshield: ;
now consider only the skulls and ignore any shield rolled by the two figures;
the Evil Sorcerer lost, because he obtained less skulls than the Wizard.
Evil Sorcerer loses 2 Mind Point (4 skulls - 2 skulls = 2)


Yes, I get this part. The question is though, say the next turn, does the Evil Sorcerer in example 2 roll 3 dice because he lost 2 mind points? Or does he still roll 5, but he just dies if he loses 3+ mind points after?
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Re: Mind Blast Question

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Thursday October 14th, 2021 1:49pm

Kurgan wrote:I take it as referring to your Mind Points at the time, not your starting maximum. Chaos Sorcerer's tend to have multiples of these abilities, but not unlimited.

My gaming group hasn't progressed to that level yet, but I imagine it would really only allow the Sorcerer to eliminate one or two heroes, unless he is really lucky. Mind Blast can harm hin as well, if he's unlucky.


As for having 1 BP, yes, these expansions introduced multiple body point monsters to the EU, but tended only to apply to the Ogres. Phoenix's conversions were intended to merge them with the NA standards.


So you'd take it as a cumulative deduction affecting later castings of Mind Blast (they roll fewer dice as they lose Mind Points).
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Re: Mind Blast Question

Postby Daedalus » Friday October 15th, 2021 11:02am

Jalapenotrellis wrote:I'm unclear on Mind Blast.

"roll combat dice equal to Mind Point score"
"inflicts Mind Point damage" in excess skulls rolled over the opponent

Do the amount of dice you roll get reduced as you lose mind points due to the mind point damage? Does that reduce the Mind Point Score, making it unlikely to roll in excess as you lose more Mind Points?
Or, does the Mind Point Score stay the same. You just start with the the amount of mind points hit points equal to your initial Mind Point Score?

Good question, but tough one! Now I'm forced to look into it generate an opinion (I believe I had originally held Kurgan's point of view.)

I'd say the Mind Point score stays the same. "Mind Point score" is only mentioned for attacking under Mind Blast. Neither Mind Lock nor Dominate uses this description. Instead, they only use "Mind points." I believe the difference is there to indicate the Mind Point score is a static number. This contrasts to "your current score" mentioned under Mind: of p.5 in the Rules of Play.

Also consider that if the attack dice were meant to be reduced as a Chaos Sorcerer took Mind point damage from a lost combat, the spell would become a liability as he would be more likely to lose further attack rolls.
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Re: Mind Blast Question

Postby Kurgan » Friday October 15th, 2021 11:59am

Jalapenotrellis wrote:
Kurgan wrote:I take it as referring to your Mind Points at the time, not your starting maximum. Chaos Sorcerer's tend to have multiples of these abilities, but not unlimited.

My gaming group hasn't progressed to that level yet, but I imagine it would really only allow the Sorcerer to eliminate one or two heroes, unless he is really lucky. Mind Blast can harm hin as well, if he's unlucky.


As for having 1 BP, yes, these expansions introduced multiple body point monsters to the EU, but tended only to apply to the Ogres. Phoenix's conversions were intended to merge them with the NA standards.


So you'd take it as a cumulative deduction affecting later castings of Mind Blast (they roll fewer dice as they lose Mind Points).


Exactly. The good guys have (rare) ways to restore or even increase Mind Points (Talisman of Lore), while the bad guys do not. If he weakens from bad rolls, it's less wise for him to keep using it. In Phoenix's conversion at least, the Sorcerer's have 5, 8 and 4 Mind Points respectively.

If we're using the pre-EQP/BQP rules for 0 Mind Point Heroes, this is pretty useful, against those low MP heroes. I think it's a nice contrast to the high BP (but low MP) monsters in this pack. It gives the Elf and especially the Wizard more of a chance to shine.


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Re: Mind Blast Question

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Thursday October 21st, 2021 1:48pm

Both Kurgan and Daedalus have extremely convincing arguments. I'm torn between the options.

by the way, did yall use the new Talisman of Lore (+2) or the NA game system version (+1)? We have put it on the barbarian.
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Re: Mind Blast Question

Postby Daedalus » Friday October 22nd, 2021 4:07am

Back in my day, we used the +1 version . . . AND WE LIKED IT! :dwarf:
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Re: Mind Blast Question

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Thursday October 28th, 2021 1:48am

Well, quest 3 just finished. I ran with the continuing depletion of mind points method. Got three casts off because I positioned the mummies in front of the door and gave the chaos sorcerer 3 BP instead of 1. Barb and dwarf and elf got hit and none went unconscious. They could have skipped the whole area because they beat the quest by taking the left route. But I coerced them to go back for more damage, lol.
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