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Variable Body Points

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Against the Ogre Horde Quest Pack.

Re: Variable Body Points

Postby lestodante » Thursday September 19th, 2019 2:33pm

[quote="The Admiral"]In theory, one ogre in a multi ogre room could take massive damage until it dies, while all the others die when losing only 1BP.

that's the wrong thing. A Barabrian is fighting an Ogre and damaging 3 bp thena wizard with a staff kill another ogre with just 1 skull and the barbarian may inflict other 3 bp to his Ogre opponet, while the wizard still try to hit a new one and kil him again with only 1 hit... and the Barbarian still have to inflict a couple of damage to his enemy before he will die.
On one side it can be fun and not prevedible ("wow, that Ogre was a tough one!!") but could also be un relaistic sometime.

I see the variable BP are more appropriated for some kind of mystic creatures so it is possible to hit one of them and the others will be suffering too


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Re: Variable Body Points

Postby wallydubbs » Thursday September 19th, 2019 6:15pm

Well drathe made some cards for Ogres with Body Points that don't seem to throw the difficulty off too much and flow very well with the traditional north American monsters.
Ogre Warrior: 3 Body Points
Ogre Champion: 4 Body Points
Ogre Chieftan: 4 Body Points
Ogre Lord: 5 Body Points

Comparatively we can see how well this matches up with the number of body points allowed in Variables:
Search for the Ogre Fortress- only 1 Ogre Warrior is present throughout the map, he is allowed 4BP through variables and only 3 on cards. Not too far off.
Outer Caves- there are 4 Ogre Warriors and 1 Ogre Champion on the map, yet the Variable points system erroneously show 7 Ogres. Regardless there are 17BP total for Ogres in variables, 16 if you use a set # of points.
Lair of the Ogre Horde- there are 4 Ogre Warriors, 1 Ogre Champion and 1 Ogre Chieftain, a total of 6 despite the Variable chart indicating 7. 18BP on the chart for 6 Ogres, while adding drathe's card total we get 20BP.
The Carrion Halls- again the Variable Chart shows 7 but we only have 5 Ogres (4 Warriors, 1 Champion)in the quest: Variably there are 17BP for the Ogres, while following drathe's cards there are 16BP.
The Pit of Chaos- has 4 Ogre Warriors and 1 Champion, this is 16BP going by the set value of drathe's cards, and 17 on the Variable points system.
Fortress of the Ogre Lord- has 7 Ogre Warriors, 2 Ogre Champions, 1 Ogre Chieftain and 1 Lord, and an Ogre Warrior as the Wandering Monsters, indicating 11 or more Ogres. The Variable Markers give us 10 Ogres and a set number of Body Points for the Ogre Lord, which is true to drathe's Card. There are 30BP on the Variable Chart and 33BP going with a set value.
Flight to the Surface- we've got 5 Ogres (4 Warriors, 1 Champion) with a total of 16BP both on a set value and the Variable system.

The Variable points system isn't that mach different then what you'd get with a set body point system... at least not drathe's cards.
The difficulty, I think, in turn, stems from the fact that body points do not refresh between quests and if playing by US rules, Chaos Warriors and Gargoyles have more then 1 body point. In addition to Ogres, these are the heavy hitters.
I'm comfortable using the Body Points drathe made on his cards. It's preferable if the heroes can refresh body points during quests, but not allowing them to run to the Armory or Alchemist Shop. The extra body points from the US version is enough to keep the heroes on their toes. Or sontuat is my opinion.
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Re: Variable Body Points

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Thursday September 19th, 2019 9:01pm

Pancho wrote:
Jalapenotrellis wrote:I'm sure I've asked this before, but if I am playing the American version of HeroQuest and then get to the Against the Ogre Horde Quest pack, do I continue playing with American rules, or do I have to learn the European rules in order to play that particular pack?

I would continue playing with the rules that your players have been using. Just give Ogre warriors 4 body points each (and 5 BP for the other Ogre types), and forget that variable body points nonsense.

Of course you could combine the best of the two rule systems, and add in other improvements to the game via house rules here and there as you go, but I think I heard you say somewhere that you really want to follow the expansions as they are written.


Ok I will probably take your recommendation and give them 4-5 bp. I was worried about having things that used to have more than 1 no suddenly have just 1, like mummies, fimir, chaos knights.
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Re: Variable Body Points

Postby Pancho » Friday September 20th, 2019 3:01am

Jalapenotrellis wrote:
Pancho wrote:
Jalapenotrellis wrote:I'm sure I've asked this before, but if I am playing the American version of HeroQuest and then get to the Against the Ogre Horde Quest pack, do I continue playing with American rules, or do I have to learn the European rules in order to play that particular pack?

I would continue playing with the rules that your players have been using. Just give Ogre warriors 4 body points each (and 5 BP for the other Ogre types), and forget that variable body points nonsense.

Of course you could combine the best of the two rule systems, and add in other improvements to the game via house rules here and there as you go, but I think I heard you say somewhere that you really want to follow the expansions as they are written.


Ok I will probably take your recommendation and give them 4-5 bp. I was worried about having things that used to have more than 1 no suddenly have just 1, like mummies, fimir, chaos knights.

Yeah it would be weird for those monsters to suddenly get weaker!
I play UK rules but with the NA monster stats (plus NA Chaos spells of course). This means that when we get to the NA expansions we won't have to up the stats for mummies, fimirs, etc.

By doing the above you will make ATOH a bit harder than the published game, but by then your Heroes should be very tough. Let us know they get on.


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Re: Variable Body Points

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Friday September 20th, 2019 5:06am

We are doing quest 14 in the game system next week or two probably. Unscheduled. So far, the game system has been easy. I actually made the wizard use a potion in quest 13, first potion any of the heroes have used the whole game. They got careless and left him open and I got a good roll.
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Re: Variable Body Points

Postby Pancho » Friday September 20th, 2019 5:44am

Jalapenotrellis wrote:We are doing quest 14 in the game system next week or two probably. Unscheduled. So far, the game system has been easy. I actually made the wizard use a potion in quest 13, first potion any of the heroes have used the whole game. They got careless and left him open and I got a good roll.

Interesting. I am going through the base quests with two groups at the moment and it does seem pretty easy for the Heroes. Even though I have doubled the cost for equipment and used NA monster stats, we've only had one Hero death so far, and that was because the players had no interest helping each other at that point. The Evil Wizard Card deck will kick in after two more quests, so hopefully it will become more of a challenge after that.
In regards to potions, we play that all potions found in the treasure card deck have to be used that quest or are lost (i.e. they go back in the deck for the next quest). I'm not sure if you're doing that too, but in our case it has meant that potions are actually used sometimes, especially HeroIc Brew.


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Re: Variable Body Points

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Friday September 20th, 2019 5:54am

Pancho wrote:
Jalapenotrellis wrote:We are doing quest 14 in the game system next week or two probably. Unscheduled. So far, the game system has been easy. I actually made the wizard use a potion in quest 13, first potion any of the heroes have used the whole game. They got careless and left him open and I got a good roll.

Interesting. I am going through the base quests with two groups at the moment and it does seem pretty easy for the Heroes. Even though I have doubled the cost for equipment and used NA monster stats, we've only had one Hero death so far, and that was because the players had no interest helping each other at that point. The Evil Wizard Card deck will kick in after two more quests, so hopefully it will become more of a challenge after that.
In regards to potions, we play that all potions found in the treasure card deck have to be used that quest or are lost (i.e. they go back in the deck for the next quest). I'm not sure if you're doing that too, but in our case it has meant that potions are actually used sometimes, especially HeroIc Brew.


No we just let them take it between quests per original rule set. The only real hero deaths were in the first quest. Everyone except the wizard died, who lived with 1 bp because I chose to not wipe them on their first run, so I "tripped" with my chaos warrior one turn, letting the wizard get away.
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Re: Variable Body Points

Postby Gav_el » Friday September 20th, 2019 10:42am

So let me get this straight lets take 'The Outer Caves' (page 14) for example.

Shown here -
http://english.yeoldeinn.com/downloads/ ... t-book.pdf

There are 4 ogres on the map, but the variable life points show 7 skull boxes! Now I am beyond abysmal at math, but even I know that that doesn't add up!

Additionally on page 6 (sorry its upside down) the instructions state -

That the Barbarian attacks Ogre A and scores 2 out of 3 life points,
The dwarf in the same room takes a swing at Ogre B scoring 2 points,

one of those points is discarded and the other point kills Ogre A

how does that make sense to anyone,

and why is Ogre B ignored?



And FYI after reading this I appear to be having a rant, I assure that that is not the case I am genuinely perplexed by it and need it clarified by someone.
Last edited by Gav_el on Wednesday October 2nd, 2019 11:54am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Variable Body Points

Postby wallydubbs » Friday September 20th, 2019 11:11am

Yeah, I sorta pointed it out that the number of Ogres don't always add up in the Variable Chart, 5 Ogres on the quest map but 7 skulls on the Variable chart, doesn't add up and I attribute that to lack of playtesting... or maybe it was playtested and they decided to reduce the amount of Ogres in the quest but forgot to alter the chart.
Look at Quest 6, though, there are 10 Ogres (not counting the Ogre Lord) and 10 skulls on the chart. However, this is the only quest that has an Ogre as a Wandering Monster, but they didn't take that into account on the Variable chart.

Good catch on the instructions, though. I missed that. They completely ignore Ogre B and it's unjustified... unless, of course, there's some type of hive mind/life link between them... but that would just be stupid.
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Re: Variable Body Points

Postby Gav_el » Friday September 20th, 2019 11:26am

wallydubbs wrote:
Good catch on the instructions, though. I missed that. They completely ignore Ogre B and it's unjustified... unless, of course, there's some type of hive mind/life link between them... but that would just be stupid.


I spotted that the day I opened the box, pre internet so I was always baffled by it!

I too thought of the Hive mind option but it is not mentioned anywhere else to my knowledge.
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