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Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Monday May 13th, 2013 7:27am
by Sjeng
I was thinking about using the exact same mini for this :D
a bit of a shame we've already passedt his quest... I might have to replay every quest after I've painted all them Bones, them Bones, them... Dry Bones!

Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Monday May 13th, 2013 7:52am
by TMU

Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Monday May 13th, 2013 1:04pm
by Big Bene
Ethica wrote:(not cotton wool though).

A piece of aerogel?
Image

Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Monday May 13th, 2013 7:03pm
by Daedalus
AerynB wrote:But now that I've finally played the quest, I have some questions about the rules for the Death Mist.
1. It says to put the Death Mist tile on the gameboard "at the beginning of the Quest." Does this mean at the very VERY beginning, or as soon as a Hero turns the corner and "sees" it? I figured if the rules meant when the Mist is first "seen," it would have said something to that effect, so I put it on the board as soon as the Heroes entered the dungeon. Is that correct?

I agree with you and everybody to place the Death Mist before it is "seen". As the Heroes must move into the corridor on their first turns anyway and won't contact it, I'd hold it back until Zargon's first turn, then place and move it around the corner. This would keep with the sight rule for a starting room (corridor) while beginning it from the required place. "At the beginning of the Quest" here means Zargon's first turn, which seems the most reasonable interpretation because it doesn't conflict with Instruction Booklet rules for starting a Quest and also agrees with sight rules in general.

AerynB wrote:2. The Heroes lose 1 BP when the Mist passes over them on Zargon's turn, but what if they pass over the Mist on their turn. Do they lose a body point then? We played that the Heroes don't lose a point when passing over the Mist tile on their turn, only because it didn't say that explicitly in the rules. Common sense tells me the Heroes should have lost a body point for moving through the mist, or possibly we should have treated it as a trap square and they had to attempt to jump the tile to avoid losing the body point. What do you all think?

I prefer to limit things to what is stated in the Quest notes. Addative interpretation invites complication while still relying on rationalized assumption(s). I feel it's better to fit a rationalization that is limited to the description. As the Death Mist is described as a breath of Chaos, I imagine it works kinda like an inhalation, then exhalation that can only then affect a Hero as it passes over (like bad breath). A brave and observant Hero can take advantage of its one-way movement limitation by running through while it is preparing (probably turning for) its next directional attack.

AerynB wrote:3. The Mist may not end its movement on a square with a Hero, but can a Hero end his movement on the Mist tile? I ruled that it was okay, sort of like in number 2 above. Since it didn't explicitly say the Heroes couldn't end on the Mist tile, then it was okay if they did. Again, common sense tells me this shouldn't be so. Same thing as a trap, if you end on the Mist tile, you lose 1 BP. What do you think?

I'm again with how you played it using only the Quest notes. The attack only need be active on Zargon's turn, while it is actively focusing it's power in its move away from a Hero that ended his turn on it. Common sense needn't apply to anything born of Chaos. Rather, Chaos looks kindly on the foolhardy!

Ethica wrote:The haunt in the bottom left here is almost perfect. It's a little bigger than 1 square though :(

Why not just move the Reaper Haunt perpendicular to the corridor, overlapping both sides a bit? This would then only take up one square, plus it would emphasize the wall-to-wall, inescapable nature of its attack. When outside of a room that is open, simply butt it against the inner wall and have it overlap the outer wall.

Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Tuesday May 14th, 2013 2:06am
by Daedalus
How did you treat the pit trap and spear trap while the Death Mist was in sight? Traps may not be searched for by a Hero while a monster is visible to him, but the Death Mist isn't exactly a monster. It has special movement restrictions and lacks other stats. It also doesn't roll to hit a Hero. On the other hand, it reacts to the Heroes, endures on the board until destroyed, and may move.

Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Tuesday May 14th, 2013 2:31am
by knightkrawler
I don't treat it as a monster cause I see it as a trap, almost like the boulder from Kellar's Keep. There are parallels between both and I wouldn't treat the boulder as a monster.
Search and Disarm actions can be taken by the Heroes in the presence of the Death Mist.

Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Tuesday May 14th, 2013 12:42pm
by Daedalus
That's an interesting analogy, and a good point. Another comparison is the Cloud of Chaos from KK. That one is also capitalized like the Death Mist, infering a monster-like status, but it instead more accurately works like a trap. The Cloud of Chaos may also inflict a BP of damage on a Hero, but only if the Hero rolls a skull (like a trap). The room with the Cloud of Chaos may be searched, but only if a 6 is first rolled that turn when the room is entered.

My original impression was the Death Mist functions like an enduring spell, kinda like the original Fire of Wrath or a Genie (also capitalized).

I'm leaning toward not allowing searches while the Death Mist is visible, just as with a monster. My feeling is it can present a targeted, imminent threat to the Hero, which is the prime characteristic of monsters. While the Instruction Booklet only denotes visible monsters as prohibiting searches, my feeling of the spirit of the rule is that imminent threat is the reason for that broad prohibition. The thematic support is that a searching Hero needs to completely cover an area while making a focused search (without actually requiring the figure to move there-its assumed), and a threatening monster would prevent that. This isn't always the case with monsters behind traps, but the general rule is outlined and governs searching, just the same. I feel this threat principle blankets this case, but this extension is really just my interpretation--it's easy to go either way, in my opinion. The Quest Notes section should have detailed this instance, making it clear whether searches were possible or not. Fortunately, Hero Quest has an Evil Sorcerer/Wizard player to apply either interpretation.

Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Tuesday May 14th, 2013 1:29pm
by Ethica
Big Bene wrote:
Ethica wrote:(not cotton wool though).

A piece of aerogel?


That is looking like mist, but the haunt looks better.

Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Tuesday May 14th, 2013 3:06pm
by knightkrawler
I allow searching for traps, disarming traps, and searching for treasure with the death Mist visible.
I totally get your point about the imminent threat and I concur on all points, but for me it's a tactical thing.

As for corridors, I allow Heroes to search for treasure (or traps) in the area between two corners or crossings they are standing in.
I followed an urge to keep some realism here. Maybe you already know my handling of Search fro Treasure, if not, take a gander: http://www.yeoldeinn.com/hqforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=895&p=16346&hilit=treasure+deck#p16346
That's why they can 'see' the threat of the Death Mist, but may gamble in this particular case.

As the Evil wizard player, I also actually want them to take this gamble. I'm evil you know...
Chances are small what with the corridor deck being very dangerous to draw from, but I want to keep the Death Mist a strategic option, maybe for other quests in different circumstances.

Re: The Death Mist

PostPosted: Monday November 13th, 2017 2:38am
by kyrrahn
I agree that the death mist is a threat but I definitely see the similarities between it and the boulder. I think that letting heroes search for treasure etc lets them waste a turn instead of using the spirit blade/tempest spell so it's win/win all round.