Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

[The Admiral]

It's been a very long time since I played this, maybe 25 years, so I don't remember it. Was it in the Euro version. I imagine the designers had realised how powerful the Heroes were getting. I can see the point of removing Borin's Armour, that's a massive loss, but Orcs Bane, that wouldn't be much of a loss even in a quest that had any, well, Orcs in it!

[cynthialee]

I bet if you tell the player that he is overpowered for the quest and you are formally requesting that one or more of the artifacts he has, 'gets left behind on accident, or in the shop for repairs' and in a future game the item will be allowed back into play the player will comply.

Being open and honest with my players about my limitations and the limitations of the game in progress has been a great tool for me and my group. Due to serious 'buy in' from my players, due to my honesty, I could get any one of my players to write up a 1st level character in a 12th level dungeon and they would wonder if maybe they should have written up a 0 level man at arms.

[Goblin-King]

Since someone asked about having all gold stolen I thought I might ask how everyone feels/reacts to quest 2 in which Borin's Armor and Orc's Bane are almost guaranteed to be destroyed. Does this seem excessive to you? Have you added any alternative rules to this room? Maybe allowing to find this "trap" if they search for it. On the other hand, do you, when leading the game, enjoy them losing these items? I'm personally a softy.

LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR!
LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR!
LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR!
LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR!
LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR!
LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR!
LET THE BODIES HIT THE...
FLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR!!!

We have people complaining RotWL is a cakewalk, yet here we are complaining about nerfing the heroes...
My players know I play fair and by the book. They also realize I'll do anything to destroy them. Everything that happens is part of the experience.

[The Admiral]

I bet if you tell the player that he is overpowered for the quest and you are formally requesting that one or more of the artifacts he has, 'gets left behind on accident, or in the shop for repairs' and in a future game the item will be allowed back into play the player will comply.

Well, Quest 2 would be a good day to forget to put on Borin's Armour!

I am almost positive my brother would not comply. And if I told him his Barbarians' magical armour had just disintegrated, he would absolutely demand to see the official text, and would still probably not accept it without a serious argument.

[cynthialee]

That would be a non argument at my table.
The Smith Dwarves of Rock Home back engineered Borins armor with the help of the adept Nank, master sorcerer. For the right amount of gold and maybe a favor or two owed to the chief of the Rocksmasher Clan anyone can have a fresh brand new Borins armor. Now it isn't cheep, but it is worth the coin spent.

[kyrrahn]

If the heroes have fought through the initial 14 quests and Kellar's Keep then they will have probably maxed out their builds. Losing the armour/bane is necessary to remind them to not get complacent. At any rate what upsets the players isn't the loss of the dice that comes with losing said items but that the items had to be earned, not bought. Heroes need risk in order for their quest to have meaning and they can only risk losing 3 things: Gold, Items and BP. I love that they can lose their special items in quest 2, their gold in quest 6... Makes them feel like they earned the win when Quest 10 finishes (assuming they haven't quit ).

[wallydubbs]

Most players find Return of the Witch Lord too easy, especially if they've acquired all artifacts from the original game system and survived the onslaught that is Keller's Keep.
Considering the heroes would be maxed out at this point, little surprises like this help to even the odds, so I allow this "trap" to destroy other artifacts as well.

Since my gameplay gives an edge to the heroes allowing the Wizard and Elf to pick spells from other expansions, I also plan to make the final battle with the Witch Lord much more difficult. If Kassandra and/or Skullmar manage to escape in Quest 7 and 9 I'll allow them to stand by the Witch Lord in his court. Even though the Conclusion says they escaped they never appear in any other quest, so I'll just skip that part when reading the Conclusion.

I even take away the Spirit Blade from the heroes once they're captured and they'll have to find it again before they face the Witch Lord.

[Maurice76]

That's a funny difference between versions. I always played the Dutch version of the game in my teenage years, and that quest has no marker in the room with that tomb. There's also nothing in the quest notes that mentions destruction of those two Artifacts. So I guess Dutch HeroQuest Heroes are safe from losing their precious gear that way .

[Spookyhappyfun]

The Quest Notes say that it's the tomb of a "great" warrior. I simply change that in mine to a "cruel" warrior and put something in the intro about the Spirit Riders lying among the remains of other soldiers of Chaos. It's a subtle thing, but it doesn't give them the impression that the tomb was for a good guy, therefore, if they open it and lose those items, well, that's on them for not paying attention or for taking a risk by trusting Chaos.