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Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Return of the Witch Lord Quest Pack.

Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby Nephew of Mentor » Sunday April 1st, 2012 6:33am

Since someone asked about having all gold stolen I thought I might ask how everyone feels/reacts to quest 2 in which Borin's Armor and Orc's Bane are almost guaranteed to be destroyed. Does this seem excessive to you? Have you added any alternative rules to this room? Maybe allowing to find this "trap" if they search for it. On the other hand, do you, when leading the game, enjoy them losing these items? I'm personally a softy.
Sure it's pretty scary when the witch lord returns but what you should really be afraid of is "Resurrection of the Witch Lord". Resurrected baddies always come back more threatening than ever, usually kind of demonic with wings and horns and hell fire to announce their arrival. Think Gannondorf or Mother Brain from Super Metroid.


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Re: Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby tasoe » Sunday April 1st, 2012 7:42am

I also am a softy and I think that this event is excessive. However, this is only because the heroes are not used to random effects such as that one.
That's why I think it's important that everyquest has a random special event so you are used to them. KK and RotWL both have a lot of events in their quests but the one you're talking about is the cruelest and seems a bit unfair.


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Re: Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby Nephew of Mentor » Sunday April 1st, 2012 8:28am

I like how you say the heroes are "not used to" them. I have had a problem in the past where my players become complacent because they aren't anticipating what "could" happen. This is especially true of the early quests before traps become really common. Maybe if I were to add more caskets with traps, or rust traps to the game prior to this occurrence they might be less likely to lose those two items. Another option would be to include some sort of warning of the "curse" against the retainers of borin on anyone to open the tomb, hidden somewhere in this or a prior quest.
Sure it's pretty scary when the witch lord returns but what you should really be afraid of is "Resurrection of the Witch Lord". Resurrected baddies always come back more threatening than ever, usually kind of demonic with wings and horns and hell fire to announce their arrival. Think Gannondorf or Mother Brain from Super Metroid.


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Re: Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby Thrawn » Sunday April 1st, 2012 9:37am

In my gaming groups, Orc Bane never saw use anyway. I'd imagine that if I had used a "carry 2 weapons max" rule in my past campaigns through the standard quests, the players would have just tossed the sword back at the chaos warrior where they found it.

The armor on the other hand is a big loss. If it was a quest where you could shop afterwards, it wouldn't be that big. (The player would instantly buy new armor.) Since you can't shop, it's a really big setback. I've only seen the armor get caught in there once however.


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Re: Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby cynthialee » Sunday April 1st, 2012 9:52am

Players should never grow overly fond of any piece of equipment. Equipment does not make a hero, a stalwart heart and a mind that can fashion a plan is all one needs to lay claim to that title.

Over powered rust spells and theiving Ice Gremlins are your friend.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
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Re: Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby Nephew of Mentor » Sunday April 1st, 2012 10:00am

No offense Cynthialee but I'm starting to get quite the vicious vibe from you, haha. I think if I were to play dnd under your guidance it would be one of those campaigns where every few seconds the party rolls listen/spot/hide/move silently/trap checks even without you asking them to. Sometimes that on edge feeling is fun as hell, so that's okay.
Sure it's pretty scary when the witch lord returns but what you should really be afraid of is "Resurrection of the Witch Lord". Resurrected baddies always come back more threatening than ever, usually kind of demonic with wings and horns and hell fire to announce their arrival. Think Gannondorf or Mother Brain from Super Metroid.


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Re: Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby cynthialee » Sunday April 1st, 2012 10:15am

I am not too brutal. I can't be. Whenever we get a chance to play I get hounded to be the GM.

I have provided a way out for my players. It is called the Story Point. If durring the course of an adventure the players are in complete agreement with each other they may call for a cosmic rewrite and give it a second go. The players are allowed to do this once per game session.
Typically it gets ussed when one of our 12 year olds (2 of them, groans) pull a bone headed manuever that gets someone killed.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
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Re: Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby Fullork345 » Sunday January 6th, 2013 12:00pm

I was thinking, the rulebook says if artifacts are lost, have them special treasure in the next quest. Couldn't you if you wanted to use something like that to return the armor and sword? Techancly the heros lost it since it was destroyed.
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Re: Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby Daedalus » Sunday January 20th, 2013 3:32pm

tasoe wrote:I also am a softy and I think that this event is excessive. However, this is only because the heroes are not used to random effects such as that one.
That's why I think it's important that everyquest has a random special event so you are used to them. KK and RotWL both have a lot of events in their quests but the one you're talking about is the cruelest and seems a bit unfair.


It works in Warhammer Quest--Randomness is that game's middle name.

Nephew of Mentor wrote:...Another option would be to include some sort of warning of the "curse" against the retainers of borin on anyone to open the tomb, hidden somewhere in this or a prior quest.

Like. The Quest note for the artifact trap could even include this information, but then it would need to be more subtle, as it is more immediate. I'd change the original wording of "If a Hero searches for treasure in this room, ask him if he wishes to pry open the tomb of a great warrior" to "...the tomb of a cruel warrior." The change of the warrior's reputation from great to cruel (or alternatively greedy ) should be enough for Heroes to search for a trap. The twist is that they instead need to search for a secret door to discover the nature of the trap. The alter book in the adjoining secret room could then contain this cruel warrior's story, telling of his malevolence against the Dwarves and thier works.

In my opinion, if you're going to take away named artifacts, then there should at least be a story element to go with the event. The tomb-book-trap configuration also rewards smart play. You could even go as far as to describe what would have happened if the tomb had been opened, much like the Gargoyle trap did in Bastion of Chaos, Quest 11 of the Main System.

Fullork345 wrote:I was thinking, the rulebook says if artifacts are lost, have them special treasure in the next quest. Couldn't you if you wanted to use something like that to return the armor and sword? Techancly the heros lost it since it was destroyed.

I wouldn't put those two particular artifacts back in a later Quest simply because they are lost, as it isn't "required that the Heroes have [those] specific artifact[s] in thier possession before they continue on to the next Quest." Also, there is a thematically important difference between a monster stealing an artifact from a dead Hero and magically destroying an artifact. The rulebook only covers stealing.

However, fun is fun, so if anyone feels returning the artifacts is the way to go, then they could certainly exercise the perrogative to make the best game for thier group. I'd suggest a later Quest where the Heroes are directed by Mentor to travel through a magical portal. They are then given the chance to defeat the cruel warrior at an earlier point in time and undo the curse of the tomb. Upon returning their artifacts are restored.
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Re: Quest 2, artifact loss!!!

Postby lucasdp » Thursday February 11th, 2016 3:19am

My heroes made it through the original questbook without getting either Borin's Armor or the Orc's Bane. And I've got one hero that has collected a bunch of other artifacts (including one or two homebrews) and gotten a little overpowered. So I'm actually thinking about amping the tomb's curse up to say that it will destroy a random artifact of a hero in the room, rather than just the two that seem to be rather arbitrarily named.

But not the Spirit Blade, of course. ;)


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