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Why no Balrog?

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc from the Kellar's Keep Quest Pack.

Why no Balrog?

Postby Zenithfleet » Sunday November 1st, 2020 12:45pm

Yes, I know Balrogs are from Lord of the Rings...

But come on, you know what I mean. Kellar's Keep is clearly a rip-off... er... homage to the Mines of Moria.

And the Gargoyle, despite being an old-school D&D monster, has a miniature resembling a statue of a Warhammer Bloodthirster (daemon of Chaos). Which was itself a rip-off... er... homage to the Balrog. Whip and flaming sword and all.

So why didn't this Quest Pack include some kind of encounter with a totally-not-Balrog? The Guardian at the end of the last quest doesn't cut it. How did they miss such an obvious opportunity for a ri... homage?

After seeing so many statues of Bloodthirsters throughout the HQ world, wouldn't it be a fun and scary twist to get really far into Kellar's Keep and run into the actual horror they depict? A real Bloodthirster, vastly stronger than any Gargoyle, which you could nonetheless represent with your trusty Garg model from the base game?

"This foe is beyond any of you..." RUN AWAY! :gargoyle:

Just needs the bridge tile from Against the Ogre Horde. Or, in a pinch, grab those two double-blocked-square markers and flip them upside down to give a nice black 'abyss' on either side of a narrow bridge.
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Re: Why no Balrog?

Postby Malcadon » Thursday August 31st, 2023 10:09am

Here:
Burning Fury
ImageThe Lord of Inferno and Rage who want to see the world engulf in Hell's fire!
MovementAttack DiceDefense DiceBody PointsMind Points
85464
Notes: Large, Spellcaster

The Burning Fury can cast the following Chaos spells: Courage, Fire of Wrath, Ball of Flames, Firestorm, Wall of Flames and Restore Chaos. Zargon can choose an additional 6 Chaos spells for the Burning Fury from any of the Chaos spells in the Game System, with the exception of the Escape spell.

Wall of Flames works just like Ice Wall, but passing though it means taking damage just like being hit with Ball of Flames with damage being automatic for each turn a Hero remains on a Wall of Flames tile. The Wall of Flames tiles only be dispelled by Air spells: Tempest spell removes a single tile; Genie removes all tiles. The Swift Wind spell allows a Hero to safely move through Wall of Flames tiles.

When a monster takes up more than one square (the Burning Fury, for instance), that monster can attack anyone on any adjacent square (including diagonally), even if the monster's figure is facing away from the target.

Reaper Miniatures produces a number of affordable demons and devil minis that can be used for a HeroQuest Balrog.

Enjoy!
Last edited by Malcadon on Thursday August 31st, 2023 10:52pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Why no Balrog?

Postby cornixt » Thursday August 31st, 2023 11:25am

Should that be Burning Fury? A furry is someone who plays an animal character.


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Re: Why no Balrog?

Postby Kurgan » Friday September 1st, 2023 7:53pm

Perhaps the Dwarves didn't dig down deep enough...



Spoiler: There's a Balrog like creature in Prophecy of Telor.


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Re: Why no Balrog?

Postby wallydubbs » Saturday September 2nd, 2023 12:57pm

Maybe just for Copyright infringement...


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Re: Why no Balrog?

Postby Daedalus » Saturday February 15th, 2025 8:47am

I wouldn't want my Hero to have to face a bloodthirster after wearing down from the rest of the Quest. The Guardian still must be killed to complete the Quest.

Still, your point about the last encounter coming off lackluster is on point. In an old topic, I chose to take a cue from the cover art and add the ability to cast a Pass Through Rock spell. That way the Gargoyle can bypass the tank and get at the weaker Heroes at the rear using the divide and conquer tactic. To work best, the square marked with an "X" should be moved to the right of the crag tile.
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Re: Why no Balrog?

Postby Zenithfleet » Sunday February 16th, 2025 8:51am

Daedalus wrote:I wouldn't want my Hero to have to face a bloodthirster after wearing down from the rest of the Quest. The Guardian still must be killed to complete the Quest.

Still, your point about the last encounter coming off lackluster is on point. In an old topic, I chose to take a cue from the cover art and add the ability to cast a Pass Through Rock spell. That way the Gargoyle can bypass the tank and get at the weaker Heroes at the rear using the divide and conquer tactic. To work best, the square marked with an "X" should be moved to the right of the crag tile.


I'm a bit embarrassed about my original post now. The Gargoyle at the end of Grin's Crag pretty clearly is meant to be a Balrog homage. You even fight it on a supposedly narrow path, like the showdown with the Balrog at the Bridge. :oops:

The trouble is that it's a feeble effort. The cardboard cliff's edge for Grin's Crag doesn't even do anything--it's just decoration.


I like your Pass Through Rock idea. In fact, I have that written down somewhere myself--maybe I nicked it from your old post! One slight hiccup is that the rules say the Guardian is immune to all spells, so technically it wouldn't be able to cast Pass Through Rock on itself...

Another idea I had was to make fighting on the crag tile feel dangerous, with a risk of slipping and falling to your death. Something like this:

Fighting on the narrow cliff path is dangerous. If a character on the cliff tile rolls three or more black shields when attacking, he slips and falls to his death. He is immediately eliminated regardless of how many Body points he has remaining. The Guardian is used to fighting on the cliff and cannot fall.


The chance of rolling three black shields is very low (the equivalent of rolling a triple 1), so it's unlikely to actually result in a hero death. But the mere possibility could make the fight more tense. It might also encourage the hero players to use weaker weapons than usual, so that they only roll two dice instead of three or four.


Another possibility I mentioned in a different thread might indirectly help with this fight: have a time limit to complete Grin's Crag, maybe by using the Treasure deck as a timer (discard the top card at the start of every evil wizard player turn). If the heroes are hurrying to exit the quest and save the Emperor's army, and suddenly find a Gargoyle blocking their path, the battle may feel more intense without beefing it up at all.


Incidentally, there are some interesting differences between the EU and NA versions:

- In the EU original, the crag/cliff cardboard tile has no name, just a (badly drawn) graphic on the map. In the NA edition the cardboard tile is called the 'cliff corridor', so any custom rule for the NA edition should use that phrase.

- In the EU version, the Guardian appears much closer to the exit door than in the NA version. The trigger square is four squares from the door in the EU edition, whereas it's the far end of the cliff corridor in the NA edition.

- There is no X on the map in the EU version to specify where the Guardian appears. Instead, you put the Guardian on a square adjacent to the triggering square. This means it could appear behind the first player to trigger its appearance, rather than always appearing in front of them as in the NA edition. It can bypass the tank this way, meaning a Pass Through Rock might be unnecessary. (The wording is a little ambiguous, with a typo, and it's not quite clear whether the player finishes their move before the Guardian pops out.)

- In the EU edition the Guardian has three body points (the first multi-BP monster in the official quests) whereas it has four in the NA edition.
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Re: Why no Balrog?

Postby Daedalus » Sunday February 23rd, 2025 11:55am

Good point about the Guardian being immune to all spells. That would prohibit it casting Pass Through Rock on itself as you mention. I suppose a more specific note is needed (changes are underlined):

    This cliff corridor is Grin's Crag. The first Hero that moves onto the square marked "C" will activate the Guardian of Grin's Crag.xOn your (Zargon's) next turn, place the Gargoyle anywhere on the cliff corridor tile. The Gargoyle moves, attacks, and defends as a normal Gargoyle would, but it is immune to all spells and has 4 Body Points.
I borrowed from the simple place-and-activate mechanic of the EU Quest note, but retained the specific activation timing of the NA note. (Bursting through the rock face can be imagined.) The Gargoyle placement fully exploits the cliff corridor tile for a more opportune surprise attack--a tactical step up from the EU version.

Apart from this upgraded idea, I think the slip-and-fall idea is another great challenge that takes inspiration from the cover art--you should go with it. The ice ledge rules in Q4 of the BQP could also work, but that's more deadly (and wordy). An interesting hybrid of the two is possible:

    If a Hero rolls 3 black shields when attacking or defending, he slips off the edge of the crag, suffering 1 BP of damage and ending his turn. On his next turn, he must roll a one combat die. If another black shield is rolled, he falls to his death. Otherwise, he may climb back onto the cliff corridor and continue his turn.
The more armored a Hero is, the more likely he could suffer the deadly plummet when battered by the Gargoyle. (This is similar to the choice of weapons you mentioned earlier--do I really need this shield?) This mimics the pit of darkness a bit, but instead models the hampering effect of heavy armor on balance. The surprise Gargoyle and the risky cliff modifications together can really ramp up the drama for an appropriately tense climax. I'm not sure if I'll play KK again, but I can always insert this cliff corridor/Guardian combo into another Quest.
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