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The Dwarven Forge

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc from the Kellar's Keep Quest Pack.

The Dwarven Forge

Postby Milk » Wednesday September 24th, 2008 2:26am

Ok, I've always wondered about this for as long as I've owned this Quest Pack, so for 17 years now or something like that.... In Quest 4: The Dwarven Forge, what the heck is the deal with Room F !? How do you get in there? Seriously? I mean, I suppose you could use a Pass Through Rock to get in there, but then what? How are you getting out? Because as far as I know, there are no "official" rules on moving Chests (and/or passing through them for that matter), save Prince Magnus' Gold in the Main System where it appears they created the rule specifically for that Quest to complete the objective. So...anyone?
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Re: The Dwarven Forge

Postby Phoenix » Wednesday September 24th, 2008 7:49am

I've always played it as if the Hero could move past it (as if the chest moved just enough to the side to squeeze through). Count it as a movement square and continue onwards.
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Re: The Dwarven Forge

Postby Milk » Wednesday September 24th, 2008 11:55am

Yea, I've always played it that way too, but I just can't imagine that's how yr supposed to do it since I've never seen a rule that you can perform such a feat. And it just seems odd (at least to my knowledge, i don't know the later packs as intensively) that such a setup only occurs that one time.
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Re: The Dwarven Forge

Postby drathe » Wednesday September 24th, 2008 12:29pm

Room 'F' was an addition only present in the North American version. Clearly they didn't think it through, or even play test the addition. Perhaps they just wanted to extend the effects of the Forge's immense heat? If you're totally against the concept I suggest moving the room to the far right of the board to the room with the Fireplace. No obstacles there with a great spot for the secret door beside the fire place.

Now what I want to know is... What happened to the 'No searching for Treasure in the Corridors' rule? Yeah, yeah, I know the notes state it as a 'Special Room' but my Heroes always question it. The same situation with treasure in the corridor occurs in Quest 2 of Return of the Witch Lord (both versions).
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Re: The Dwarven Forge

Postby Milk » Thursday September 25th, 2008 12:44pm

Hmm, I would think that they could clearly see that they placed a secret door leading into (or from) a piece of furniture without even having to playtest it. Odd...

As far as "no treasure in corridors", I too have wondered how menial a corridor must be before the powers-that-be decided that it can properly constitute a room and as such be searched for treasure under the account that it is a "special room". And of course, since I saw official Quests force corridors into these "special rooms," I've done the same, far in the past, in my own custom quests.
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Re: The Dwarven Forge

Postby Phoenix » Thursday September 25th, 2008 5:12pm

Whether you're Hasbro, Milbron Bradley or just plain ol' Zargon/Morcar, you can do pretty much what-ever you want to.
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Re: The Dwarven Forge

Postby zep » Friday October 3rd, 2008 1:32pm

Hear hear.
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Re: The Dwarven Forge

Postby AerynB » Saturday November 28th, 2009 12:53am

Old topic, I know, but some players don't always remember the rules as we do. Dave sees a treasure chest; Dave searches for treasure, and usually without searching for traps first. (I'm gonna break him of that habit one of these days. *shakes head*) Anyhoo, I bet when we get to this quest, if he remembers to search for secret doors that is, he'll see the chest and search for treasure, forgetting that the space he's in is sorta supposed to be a corridor.

Don't know what to say about the secret door behind the chest though. Hmm... I know in one of the main system quests (*goes to look up the name*) Quest 5 Melar's Maze, I think, there's a secret door that you only find by searching for treasure, and in this case the throne slides out of the way to reveal the door. I suppose this could happen in this KK quest... but looking at the map, there's really no room for the chest to slide anywhere... darnit. Well, this is probably stupid, but maybe the hero searching for secret doors lifts the chest out of the way and puts it on the table, or shoves it under the table... or, yeah, it's kind of a messed up situation. I think I'm gonna do what drathe suggested and put room F on the other side of the board near the fireplace room. :) There all fixed.


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Re: The Dwarven Forge

Postby Daedalus » Thursday June 2nd, 2011 6:01pm

Milk wrote:Ok, I've always wondered about this for as long as I've owned this Quest Pack, so for 17 years now or something like that.... In Quest 4: The Dwarven Forge, what the heck is the deal with Room F !? How do you get in there? Seriously? I mean, I suppose you could use a Pass Through Rock to get in there, but then what? How are you getting out? Because as far as I know, there are no "official" rules on moving Chests (and/or passing through them for that matter), save Prince Magnus' Gold in the Main System where it appears they created the rule specifically for that Quest to complete the objective. So...anyone?


For a game that has furniture so prevalent, the rules are strangely reticent on how to deal with it. It's basically eye-candy for 12 year-olds. Are there any relevant rules that can be used to infer what to do with a chest?
As you pointed out, Quest 4, Prince Magnus' Gold allows a chest to be carried. If you want more from the Instruction Book, pp. 12-13 movement prohibitions and allowances found under Hero Movement could be a good place to start:

... Then,
move carefully along the corridors and
into rooms square by square....

... When moving, however, you can-
not pass over monsters, move through
walls or move diagonally. You MAY
pass over other Heroes. You may only
enter rooms through doors. You may
not share a square with another Hero
or with a monster. Exceptions: When
on the stairs or in pit traps, sharing a
square is permitted.


The first sentence of the second section states what is strictly prohibited to move through; the second and third sentences state what is allowed to pass over/ through. Furniture isn't included in either. (The last sentences similarly discuss shared squares.) Does non-inclusion of furniture in the MAY pass sentence suggest a prohibition? Perhaps, but probably not if another pass over/ move through case exists that wasn't put in the MAY pass over/ through sentences above and is discussed in the rules. Two such cases are jumping over traps and disarming traps.

Jumping a Trap
As a Hero, if your path is blocked by a
trap, you may attempt to pass by jump-
ing over it. To jump over a trap, you
must do the following:

<> You must have at least two squares of
movement remaining, as if you moved
onto the trap square and then onto one
unoccupied ADJACENT square beyond.

<> You must roll anything but a skull on
1 combat die to jump the trap. If a
skull is rolled, you spring the trap,
suffering the body damage caused by
that particular type of trap. If there is a
corresponding trap tile, it will then be
put on the gameboard by Zargon. You
are then put on the trap square. This
ends your turn.

<>If you avoid rolling a skull, you can
jump over the trap, expending two
moves. If you have any moves remaining
from your dice roll, you may then
continue your move.


A Hero may pass over traps (given the 2 square minimum), just as a Hero may pass through another Hero or through an open doorway . A trap feature isn't a standard corridor or room square- in fact, it has a special tile to be placed. Additional moves over or through a single square containing an obstacle are allowed in the game rules. Furniture, another type of obstacle, could similarly be passed, it's just not listed under the movement section (as with traps).

Some interpretation is needed to apply existing rules to furniture, however. A chest or throne is 3-D and movable in many circumstances, while a pit isn't. When a Hero simply wants to jump over a one-square piece of furniture, and there is a qualifying empty adjacent square beyond, use the Jumping a Trap rule. However, substitute obstacle for trap. An obstacle is defined as a trap or single-square furniture piece. The furniture becomes a kind of trap, with a penalty for failure- 1 Body Point of damage. As it's difficult to fit a furniture piece like a chest and a Hero in the same square, the Hero should be allowed to move to an empty adjacent square beyond, even if a Body Point was suffered.

There will be times when a Hero will instead wish to move the obstacle, as with the chest in Quest 4. The Disarm A Trap action may be applied to this case, but instead of removing a trap (an obstacle) from the gameboard, a piece of furniture (an obstacle) is moved on the gameboard. No tool kit is needed. As lifting heavy dungeon furniture isn't easy, failing the disarm a trap/move attempt means that piece can't be moved by the Hero, that turn or later in the Quest. Any traps on the furniture will also be sprung, if not disarmed previously. A successful disarm a trap/move roll allows the Hero to move the furniture into an adjacent space, or carry the item on the following turns. If carrying furniture, Move is limited to 1 red die, as with plate mail. As with the Dwarf's anything-but-a-black-shield die roll to Disarm a Trap, the Barbarian should alone enjoy the same odds to move or carry a piece of furniture; his strength makes him the natural heavy-lifter.

These suggestions aren't exactly rules that are printed in the Instruction Booklet, but rather are an extension of them. I hope this house-ruling of the rules is sufficiently grounded to be acceptable for dealing not only with the chest in The Forge of KK, but other cases, as well. From there, larger furniture pieces could be allowed, but I wanted to keep things focused.

My personal opinion is that the chest/secret door combo was intentional with the assumption that a Hero was not prohibited from moving/carrying the chest. I see the Quest rules in Prince Magnus' Gold as a precursor and validation of that assumption. So the above suggestions could all be shucked out the window in favor of simply allowing the chest to be moved- period.
Last edited by Daedalus on Saturday June 4th, 2011 12:14pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: The Dwarven Forge

Postby el_flesh » Friday June 3rd, 2011 10:07am

Not to go off topic too much...

It's basically eye-candy for 12 year-olds.

Ya well you can include significantly older farts there; too! It's STILL more appealing to me than the flat tiles of D&D!

We treat all furniture as you would in the real world; carry chests (often using the half Ogre Zebs because of his strength) knock over bookcases, drag tables, throw throne etc.
Cripes, if you want to, you can make the weapon rack hold a massive war hammer which you can use to systematically demolish the stone tomb. Or a stone gargoyle, animated or not....
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