The Spiral Passage - boulder?

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The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby Leander » Saturday August 11th, 2012 11:36am

How exactly does the boulder work?

As soon as all players have passed the trap square AND it is Zargon's turn it is placed onto the board. Then the heroes make their moves, then the boulder starts rolling with 2 red dice.

e.g.

Barbarian moves
Dwarf moves
Elf moves
Wizard moves (all of them move pass the trap square)
Zargon places the boulder but it doesn't move.
Barbarian and all other heroes move
Zargon's turn -> the boulder rolls

Or it the boulder placed still in the last hero passing the trap square's turn? So the hero passes the square, the boulder appears...the hero moves his remaining squares...then Zargon rolls for the boulder. But this would be way to hard.

In Lurchbrick's computer version, the boulder seems to move with 1 red die only, not two.

What, if the boulder hits a hero? It attacks him with 5 dice, he must not defend...loses up to 5 body points...does the boulder then stop his turn or does it continue rolling and can hit other heroes in this turn, too?
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Re: The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby Sjeng » Saturday August 11th, 2012 11:39am

In my game the boulder started rolling right away. It was a close call.
If it rolls over a hero, it rolls on. It does not matter if the Hero dies or survives.

See it in action here!

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Re: The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby knightkrawler » Saturday August 11th, 2012 12:25pm

For me that's way too harsh, although it's only logical. An attack with 5 combat dice seems like something corresponding to a boulder rolling over a hero, so it would keep rolling.

But I handle it like this: heroes conclude their turns, boulder is set in corner and starts rolling. Heroes roll, boulder rolls.
If it hits, damage of 3 BP minus to be defended against: Elf 2 dice, all others 1 die.

I also see it more like a plot device than a killing machine:
Think Indiana Jones and dungeons, here.

It's mainly there to block one possible path for the heroes when it crashes into the wall.
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Re: The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby Daedalus » Friday August 17th, 2012 3:50pm

Leander did a good job describing the issue, but since I love to over-clarify, here's the relevant text:

KK, p.2
Giant Stone Boulder
The giant stone boulder rolls down
a corridor, doing great damage to
anything in its path.


KK, p.6
When the last Hero passes the square marked "A", a giant
stone boulder will fall from the ceiling. Place the round
boulder tile on the square marked "A". On your (Zargon's)
next turn and subsequent turns, roll 2d6 to see how far down
the corridor the boulder rolls (to the right, toward the
Heroes). The boulder will eventually crash into the wall at
the end of the passage, on the corner square marked with a
starburst. The passage will then be blocked for the rest of
the Quest. Tell each Hero hit by the boulder to roll 5
Combat Dice. For each Skull rolled, a Hero loses 1 Body
Point. (No Defend Dice are rolled.) the boulder trap
cannot be searched for or disarmed.


How I think it works:
  1. The last Hero passes "A", finishing any remaining movement.
  2. On Zargon's turn the round boulder tile is placed at "A"
  3. On the Heroes's next turn and subsequent turns, they all may move and take an action.
  4. On Zargon's next turn and subsequent turns, the boulder moves 2d6 squares to the right.
  5. If the boulder moves onto a square with a Hero, the Hero rolls 5 Combat Dice and takes damage for each Skull rolled. Continue moving the boulder to the right if there is any movement remaining. If the boulder has no more remaining movement, place it under the Hero. In either case, the Hero may no longer move through the boulder, even if he is pinned for a turn (should the movement of the boulder end on him before continuing on Zargon's next turn).
  6. Multiple Heroes may be crushed by the boulder.

Notes:
1. Most if not all of the Heroes would be crushed if they all passed "A" on their first turn of movement and you allow the boulder to roll just after the last Hero passes "A". The square marked "A" is the third after the entrance door, so all the Heroes would have to have moved at least 6 squares to be just beyond the minimum move of 2 squares by the boulder. If the Heroes all rolled an average of 7 for movement and had to stack behind each other, the boulder would reach at least two victims. More likely an average roll of 7 for boulder movement would crush all the Heroes, unless one or two were lucky enough to roll an 11 or 12 for movement. This suggests the trap shouldn't be started rolling until after the Heroes' second turn of movement. The tension can then be stretched out as the boulder closes in on stumbling Heroes.

2. The odds are better for the Heroes if at least one of them doesn't pass "A" on his first turn by rolling a 2 or 3 for movement. It's also possible one Hero will remain at the entrance doorway to search for traps or secret doors, thus providing more distance for all the Heroes when he passes "A" on his next turn. As these possibilities aren't too likely, I'd say the trap wasn't intended for the Heroes to counter it in this fashion.

3. The boulder needn't interrupt the last Hero's movement and be dropped immediately as he moves 1 square beyond "A". Passing "A" includes his full movement, then place the boulder tile. Of course you could place it immediately for dramatic effect, but it doesn't change the mechanics of the turn sequence. First, the last player who passes "A" finishes his movement, then the boulder is placed on Zargon's turn. This works like a Gargoyle trap that is triggered by opening a door: first the Hero triggers the door/Gargoyle trap, then the Gargoyle attacks on Zargon's turn.

4. Interpreting what constitutes "On your (Zargon's) next turn" is critical to determing when the boulder starts moving towards the Heroes. I maintain Zargon's "next turn" is not on his turn that follows, just after the Hero's turn who last passed "A". Instead, first there is an assumed Zargon turn for placing the boulder tile on "A", where it is redundant and misleading to apply a "next" modifier. Rather, "On your (Zargon's) next turn" more accurately and meaningfully indicates two Zargon turns after the turn that the last Hero passes "A". If this wasn't the case, the Quest note should have been worded more restrictively and clearly: "On your (Zargon's) turn and on subsequent turns, roll 2d6..."

5. The p.2 description describes the boulder as doing great damage to anything in its path. That suggests a squishy obstacle won't prematurely stop it. The p. 6 description states that the boulder will eventually crash into the wall at the end of the passage. Even if a Hero is caught under the boulder, it simply continues it's inevitable movement to the corner location marked with a starburst. Also, if it is big enough to seal a corridor off, it is big enough to roll over a person. The corridor must somehow be widened halfway up the walls to allow the diameter of such a large boulder to fit and yet block a corner. If it were instead small enough to fit in a 3 1/2 foot wide corridor (scaled to the figures), any Hero but perhaps a Dwarf could be expected to leap over it. Besides, everybody is thinking Indiana Jones size anyway. This isn't Mercenary Quest, it's Hero Quest, damnit!

6. Has anybody ever tried a Pass Through Rock spell to avoid this bad boy?
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Re: The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby Sjeng » Friday August 17th, 2012 4:52pm

Daedalus wrote:KK, p.6
When the last Hero passes the square marked "A", a giant
stone boulder will fall from the ceiling. Place the round
boulder tile on the square marked "A". On your (Zargon's)
next turn and subsequent turns, roll 2d6 to see how far down
the corridor the boulder rolls


How I think it works:
  1. The last Hero passes "A", Zargon instantly places the boulder tile, last Hero finishes any remaining movement.
  2. On Zargon's next turn and subsequent turns, the boulder moves 2d6 squares to the right.
  3. On the Heroes' next turn and subsequent turns, they all may move and take an action.
  4. If the boulder moves onto a square with a Hero, the Hero rolls 5 Combat Dice and takes damage for each Skull rolled. Continue moving the boulder to the right if there is any movement remaining. If the boulder has no more remaining movement, place it under the Hero. In either case, the Hero may no longer move through the boulder, even if he is pinned for a turn (should the movement of the boulder end on him before continuing on Zargon's next turn).
  5. Multiple Heroes may be crushed by the boulder.

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Re: The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby knightkrawler » Saturday August 18th, 2012 5:56am

To summarize:
I'm with Sjeng, but the only difference to Daedalus POV seems to be the time when the EWP puts the marker in its place.
And I handle the damage differently.
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Re: The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby Sjeng » Sunday August 19th, 2012 4:57am

knightkrawler wrote:To summarize:
I'm with Sjeng, but the only difference to Daedalus POV seems to be the time when the EWP puts the marker in its place.
And I handle the damage differently.

Not only the time of placement of the marker, but consequently the time the thing starts rolling. In my game it starts to roll immediately after the last hero's turn, who passed spot "A". In his game, the heroes get an extra turn to take cover, which is way too easy, because they can all simply run into the first room they see.

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Re: The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby Daedalus » Tuesday August 28th, 2012 6:06pm

@Sjeng-
Where was the Wizard when the boulder dropped in your game posted on your blog? I don't see him in the picture of the first turn...or did you not record the first turn and he is at least 15 squares into the boulder corridor, off-screen? The reason I ask is because if the Heroes had a first turn before the trap was triggered, that would explain why they all escaped safely. They seem to have gotten their head-start through luck or strategy, as I pointed out in note 2. Also, did the Dwarf and Elf get crushed? I didn't get that from the post. It seems to me that you rolled a minimum 2 squares for the movement of the boulder when it first dropped, otherwise how could the Dwarf get in front of the boulder on the stairs?

It's interesting that the trap can't be searched for or disarmed, but its damage potential of 2 or 3 Body Points can be thwarted or minimized by one Hero not immediately advancing beyond the trigger square. If he instead first takes a search action while the others move ahead, that probably gives the other Heroes (at least) the safety margin they need. Kudos to the player who searched if that was the case.

I played this way back in the day. If memory serves, at least one of the Heroes was crushed, maybe two. I guess we weren't prudent--probably all the beer and :mrgreen: we used to enjoy while playing.
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Re: The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby knightkrawler » Wednesday August 29th, 2012 10:46am

I know what :mrgreen: is...c ;)
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Re: The Spiral Passage - boulder?

Postby Sjeng » Thursday August 30th, 2012 11:44am

Daedalus wrote:@Sjeng-
Where was the Wizard when the boulder dropped in your game posted on your blog? I don't see him in the picture of the first turn...or did you not record the first turn and he is at least 15 squares into the boulder corridor, off-screen? The reason I ask is because if the Heroes had a first turn before the trap was triggered, that would explain why they all escaped safely. They seem to have gotten their head-start through luck or strategy, as I pointed out in note 2. Also, did the Dwarf and Elf get crushed? I didn't get that from the post. It seems to me that you rolled a minimum 2 squares for the movement of the boulder when it first dropped, otherwise how could the Dwarf get in front of the boulder on the stairs?

if I recall correctly the wizard was ahead, already passed the first door, where he waited for the rest. The entire party ran inside the first door, barbarian forst, then wizard, and the elf and dwarf just made it inside, with the boulder at their heels.
I'd have to reread my notes to be 100% sure, but they did not get rolled over.

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